Other John Stanier projects

[RockMessiah]

Of course, I liked the individual Tomahawk members in their 90s bands more, too, but those days are gone, if you accept that and take the music for what it is, "Mit Gas" is outstanding.

I have to take issue with that statement, RM. A lot of people use that same argument at times, and it's like you're saying, "Yeah, I know Tomahawk's music isn't that great, but you should like it because John Stanier is in it and if you don't, it's because you simply can't accept he's no longer in Helmet and move on." Or we're back to that insinuation of "I guess you're not a real fan" jazz. It's as if you see something that the rest of don't, so somehow we're the ones that are flawed or "unaccepting." Sorry, I don't buy that.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, it's just I've heard that so many times before and I really don't agree at all.

Well that was absolutely not what I was aiming at with that statement. It shouldn't be "excusing" that Tomahawk "isn't that great" or something, because I think Tomahawk IS great. It was more of a direct reply to what eht13 said:

I actually think the parts were greater than the sum in this case. Meaning I liked Patton in FNM better, I liked Stanier in Helmet better, and I liked Denison in The Jesus Lizard better (not too familiar with Rutmanis' work with the Melvins, I believe).

... so it was my fault that I didn't quote that earlier, it had been more clear who I was referring to.

[eht13]

Of course, I liked the individual Tomahawk members in their 90s bands more, too, but those days are gone, if you accept that and take the music for what it is, "Mit Gas" is outstanding.

I have to take issue with that statement, RM. A lot of people use that same argument at times, and it's like you're saying, "Yeah, I know Tomahawk's music isn't that great, but you should like it because John Stanier is in it and if you don't, it's because you simply can't accept he's no longer in Helmet and move on." Or we're back to that insinuation of "I guess you're not a real fan" jazz. It's as if you see something that the rest of don't, so somehow we're the ones that are flawed or "unaccepting." Sorry, I don't buy that.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, it's just I've heard that so many times before and I really don't agree at all.

Well that was absolutely not what I was aiming at with that statement. It shouldn't be "excusing" that Tomahawk "isn't that great" or something, because I think Tomahawk IS great. It was more of a direct reply to what eht13 said:

I actually think the parts were greater than the sum in this case. Meaning I liked Patton in FNM better, I liked Stanier in Helmet better, and I liked Denison in The Jesus Lizard better (not too familiar with Rutmanis' work with the Melvins, I believe).

... so it was my fault that I didn't quote that earlier, it had been more clear who I was referring to.

OK, I see that taking the music "for what it is" is good. But I don't think that we, as listeners, "owe" anyone our acceptance that the past is in the past. We don't owe Tomahawk, for example, the acceptance that they all used to be in better bands. We are entitled to expect what we want to expect out of them.

[RockMessiah]

True, but the problem is, what exactly do or can you expect? I mean the former bands like FNM, Helmet and the Jesus Lizard were very different in their styles, so one should expect that Tomahawk as a whole is quite different too - and it is IMO. It's hard to measure the quality of music in general and when you reached a certain level, it's mostly a matter of taste. So with that said, I personally enjoy Tomahawk very much, if others don't, I can see that and it's ok with me.
For me it was only important to make clear that "Mit Gas" is an album that grows a lot when you give it a chance, at least it did for me, especially after I've seen a live vid of Captain Midnight which suddenly made all the oddities in the song-writing look absolutely reasonable.

[markofcain]

i would just like to add my 2 cents worth and say that i enjoy tomahawks work immensely. its different/weird and has 2 of my favourite band members in it. i can honestly say that even if i knew nothing of patton/stanier i would still enjoy their music, just on its merits.

[barkmarket]

I must admit that I really like Tomahawk, Battles and TMOC. Obviously I became interested in them simply because Stanier was a part of them. I actually went to see Tomahawk in Dublin when they toured the first album, and thought they were immense live.
I also saw Battles in Dublin a few months ago, and I can honestly say I didn't even know Stanier was capable of that shit. I think he's an amazing drummer, but this was just insane, I've never seen anything like it. (I also met him that night, and probably scared him a little with my enthusiasm!)
As far as TMOC goes, I think it's the perfect vehicle for the 'Helmet' side of Stanier's playing. Simple, fat, bludgeoning grooves, with some great fills. If you haven't heard 'Token' from This is This, then that's the one you should get. There's some vintage Stanier drum-madness in the middle eight.

I realise I'm probably completely biased in that I own every album Stanier's ever played on, but I think these bands would still be good if someone else was playing drums (as long as they were as good obviously!)

Just my opinion.....

[eht13]

eht -> It´s done. Check the upload section!

Cool, thanks. I'll try to check those out a little later.

OK, finally got into the FTP last night and got those TMOC songs. My first reaction, anyway, is that I like it quite a bit. Not as much as Helmet, of course, but overall pretty cool stuff! The This Is This songs are definitely helped out a lot by the presence of Stanier, I think. Anyway, thanks again slave_guard.

I'm probably going to get a couple Battles songs off of iTunes soon... I don't know if I would like a whole EP/LP of them, but I found a couple songs that should take care of that odd interest. As far as Tomahawk... still not sure about that. From what I've heard they aren't necessarily bad, but not good enough to get.

[markofcain]

tomahawk is definitely good enough to get. its out there and different. it has nothing to do with "well it has mike patton in it so you have to like it" i'll be the first one admit that some of the stuff that he as done is absolute fucking shite. i own only one fantomas album (directors cut) because that is the only album with structured songs and singing it. the other ones are just too weird or they annoy me because you can never sink your teeth into a riff. they get a good riff/rhythm going and then do something stupid like putting cartoon noises or unbearable yabbering over the top.

[lamb_of_gods]

Eht: There is one Mark Of Cain song that shall rule above all else.
POINTMAN

[markofcain]

lamb of gods: how much did that song rule live....

[lamb_of_gods]

Oh fuck yes.
I got the boot lying arounf here somewhere.
You can here us screaming it during every silinece before songs.

[eht13]

Eht: There is one Mark Of Cain song that shall rule above all else.
POINTMAN

Hmm, don't have that one. The songs I got are the majority (but not all) of the songs from This Is This... I wanted to hear that album because of Stanier being on it. I can imagine that TMOC is pretty good live.

[RockMessiah]

Eht: There is one Mark Of Cain song that shall rule above all else.
POINTMAN

I always thought that was a sort of 7min version of the "Don't walk!"-riff from Distracted. Can't deny that I like this song whatsoever.

By the way, I think the early more noisy TMOC-era had some of the best bass lines I know. Check out "Seein' Double" or "The Lords of Summer".

[markofcain]

yeah TMOC kick ass live. one of the loudest shows ive been to. the good thing about them is that they just play songs, theres no self indulgent wanking in between songs or anything like that. they just smash through songs, and theres no rock star stuff either you know "ok!....are you ready for this!....melbourne we're gonna rock now!" none of that wanking......

[eht13]

yeah TMOC kick ass live. one of the loudest shows ive been to. the good thing about them is that they just play songs, theres no self indulgent wanking in between songs or anything like that. they just smash through songs, and theres no rock star stuff either you know "ok!....are you ready for this!....melbourne we're gonna rock now!" none of that wanking......

So pretty much like a Helmet show.

[markofcain]

well id love to make that comparison but ive have not been blessed with being able to see helmet EVER. thats what happens when you grow up in a small country town in the middle of fucking no where and have no money. HOWEVER......that will all change on Mar 29 at the Hi-Fi Bar when i finally get to see the fuckers play!
the first 4 months of the year are pretty set with me Tool next week, Helmet in march, and then Mastodon and Slayer in April (im mainly going for Mastodon though)