Another Gandhi Show plus DEMO # 2

[eht13]

It's an interesting question, as far as what could irritate an artist. I agree that a preference for a demo over an album version is a silly reason for an artist to be upset. We've discussed for a while why Page stays away from here, and I doubt it's that or any other single reason. I would guess it would have more to do with the bashing of Size Matters and Monochrome and the moaning for the days of John and Henry that some people were doing here for a while... but it's probably a combination of reasons and simply being busy is probably another one. I doubt he resents us a group... he did do the Q & A thing with us that BA arranged.

Anyway, a question for Red Dog... you said in your recent SF show post, "I got to meet Page again as he was talking and signing autographs at the end of the show. Shook his hand and thanked him for an awesome show. I also introduced myself as Red Dog from the Helmet board and mentioned he should do more Q & A's and come around more often!"
How did Page react to that, if at all?

[eht13]

One other thing... I remember reading somewhere in an interview with Page that he preferred the Gandhi version over the Helmet version of one of the songs. I think it was Money Shot, but I'm not sure.

[Red Dog]

Anyway, a question for Red Dog... you said in your recent SF show post, "I got to meet Page again as he was talking and signing autographs at the end of the show. Shook his hand and thanked him for an awesome show. I also introduced myself as Red Dog from the Helmet board and mentioned he should do more Q & A's and come around more often!"

How did Page react to that, if at all?

He seemed real nice about it. He smiled and said something like, "Sure, cool." He was in a genuinely good mood that night and they just put on a hell of show. He seemed fine with it. I'm really surprised at what 21st said about him. I hope that isn't true at all.

It's the second time I've mentioned this board to Page at 2 different shows and he doesn't seem at all displeased. We talked a little more the last time I saw Helmet at Slim's and he seemed like he was really happy to have done the Q & A. Actually, he was the one who brought it up. After I said I was Red Dog from the board he said, "Did you see the Q & A I did on there? What'd you think of it?" We'd talked about it a minute and I thanked for doing it. He seemd to enjoy talking about it. I just thought I'd mention it again at The Independent show so he knows we'd all like him to come back and talk some more. But I don't think I'll mention it again. Don't want to pester him.

Everyone can take my opinions anyway they'd like, but I'm a big fan of Page's music. No one is going to tell me otherwise.

[eht13]

Interesting, thanks. The last time I met Page was in '95 (they didn't come back out at the '04 show I saw), so I was obviously not on this or any other forum. I plan to see them next month, so if I can meet him again this time I will mention the forum and who I am on here. I can even tell him that he answered a specific question from me in the Q & A's.

Since different versions of See You Dead sparked this part of the conversation, I'll mention this too: that is one of my least favorite Helmet/Gandhi songs... and I also consider myself a huge fan of Page's music.

[21st Century Jesus]

damn, thats one of those posts you feel a bit odd about even at the time of writing it, even if its my own post so let me straight out say it, it sucked

actually i was also disappointed to read page sayin that things like that is why he doesnt post here, but i guess that that was more about the 'helmet sucks', 'the new lineup sucks' and 'size matters sucks' posts than the demo appreciation.

but theres also that phenomenon that we've already listened to the album versions 500 times and so an alternate version WILL sound awesomely exciting, even if its recorded on an old tape machine in the rehearsal space on the fly.


maybe all i wanted to express with my post was that I hate the gandhi show and the demo for one thing: i havent heard them yet. the damn sendspace fucked up 20 times in a row without even startin the download, and when it finally started after try no27 it got me an incomplete download. and of course something was wrong with the ftp at the same time. its all page's fault anyway. damn you.

[RockMessiah]

@21st: If you name me an email address than can handle a couple of megabyte attachments, I can send you some of the Gandhi songs .


I think Page really sought for that specific hard Helmet sound on Size Matters and thus changed the Gandhi songs which had rather calm parts. Enemies might be the only one that "slipped through".
So for that manner, I'm not disappointed that Page did change Surgery for Helmet, I'm much more disappointed about the fact that Page didn't release all these great Gandhi songs on a Gandhi record and let Helmet be Helmet and Gandhi be Gandhi, because some of these songs really distinct the two bands from each other.
But I guess that's an ancient discussion by now and I respect all choises Page made cause he's still my favorite musician and as long as he travels around and plays old Helmet songs, it's ok with me.

[lamb_of_gods]

damn, thats one of those posts you feel a bit odd about even at the time of writing it, even if its my own post so let me straight out say it, it sucked

actually i was also disappointed to read page sayin that things like that is why he doesnt post here, but i guess that that was more about the 'helmet sucks', 'the new lineup sucks' and 'size matters sucks' posts than the demo appreciation.

but theres also that phenomenon that we've already listened to the album versions 500 times and so an alternate version WILL sound awesomely exciting, even if its recorded on an old tape machine in the rehearsal space on the fly.


maybe all i wanted to express with my post was that I hate the gandhi show and the demo for one thing: i havent heard them yet. the damn sendspace fucked up 20 times in a row without even startin the download, and when it finally started after try no27 it got me an incomplete download. and of course something was wrong with the ftp at the same time. its all page's fault anyway. damn you.

IMO rough demos can and are alot of the time better than the ablum version.
Its the nitty gritty, balls to the wall rock out version, the way a song should/ did sound befor it was recored 47 times and then mixed, mashed, harmonized etc.
Through a 4 track in the corner, press record, rock out. Release.

[lamb_of_gods]

damn, thats one of those posts you feel a bit odd about even at the time of writing it, even if its my own post so let me straight out say it, it sucked

actually i was also disappointed to read page sayin that things like that is why he doesnt post here, but i guess that that was more about the 'helmet sucks', 'the new lineup sucks' and 'size matters sucks' posts than the demo appreciation.

but theres also that phenomenon that we've already listened to the album versions 500 times and so an alternate version WILL sound awesomely exciting, even if its recorded on an old tape machine in the rehearsal space on the fly.


maybe all i wanted to express with my post was that I hate the gandhi show and the demo for one thing: i havent heard them yet. the damn sendspace fucked up 20 times in a row without even startin the download, and when it finally started after try no27 it got me an incomplete download. and of course something was wrong with the ftp at the same time. its all page's fault anyway. damn you.

IMO rough demos can and are alot of the time better than the ablum version.
Its the nitty gritty, balls to the wall rock out version, the way a song should/ did sound befor it was recored 47 times and then mixed, mashed, harmonized etc.
Throw a 4 track in the corner, press record, rock out. Release.
Thats just me though. Opinions are like assholes. Mines fucked.

[eht13]

I'm not disappointed that Page did change Surgery for Helmet, I'm much more disappointed about the fact that Page didn't release all these great Gandhi songs on a Gandhi record and let Helmet be Helmet and Gandhi be Gandhi, because some of these songs really distinct the two bands from each other.
But I guess that's an ancient discussion by now and I respect all choises Page made cause he's still my favorite musician and as long as he travels around and plays old Helmet songs, it's ok with me.

Well said.

I love the Gandhi songs, but I love Helmet songs even more. Some of the Gandhi songs worked well on the albums (especially Bury Me, IMO), but in general I think the Gandhi songs being reworked was an issue of sorts for Size Matters, but not as much for Monochrome. I look forward to the next album(s), if Page can make it/them happen, consisting only of songs that were written from the start to be Helmet songs.

[21st Century Jesus]

page would say that he wrote the songs and thats what matters. to him it doesnt make a difference if he recorded them with the gandhi guys or with the helmet guys, its his songs. nine inch nails is trent reznor. gandhi and helmet is page hamilton. you could call gandhi 'helmet 1.5' (in regards to stanier bogdan lineup = 1.0 and SM lineup 2.0). just a different name.

[eht13]

Maybe, but I suspect that when he first started writing songs to be performed by Gandhi, he wasn't thinking of just writing more songs in the same style as Helmet. I think they were intended to be different... a different vein or style, not just more Helmet-type songs to be performed by a group with a different name.

Now maybe that changed when he accepted Interscope's encouragement to restart Helmet and decided to rework most of those songs into Helmet songs, but that was later on.

[21st Century Jesus]

yeah it was a different band, but I dont think the word different means a lot in that case. henry bogdans solo band did some hawaii-toast-blues for example, a total departure from helmet. pages gandhi songs were never vastly different from aftertaste, and the 2 most different songs of the gandhi demo (black light, just like me) were just used as japanese sm b-sides, but the only real difference was having a few electronically manipulated guitars in the intros and background, so instead of 100% handplayed instruments it was just 95% on gandhi.

[darko@totalgeek]

Hey jarek,


Any chance of posting a pic of your original gandhi poster?

Thanks

[jarek]

[darko@totalgeek]

nice!